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  #1  
Old May 30, 2010, 11:17 AM
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Is there any reason to why only Howard Drossin, of all the composers in the end credits are listed? Was Howard Drossin in fact the only _composer_?
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  #2  
Old May 30, 2010, 11:59 AM
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That's probably based on the fact that if you play Sonic & Knuckles (not combined with Sonic 3) actually only Howard Drossin is credited . Since, IIRC, all the music in this album is from Sonic & Knuckles, it is quite safe to assume he's only composer for this album.
Knowing 100% who did what on each game, specially in Sonic 3, is still a quite gray area; and a mistery pending to be resolved, even more so when looking back at past discoveries.
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  #3  
Old May 30, 2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewing Darksun View Post
That's probably based on the fact that if you play Sonic & Knuckles (not combined with Sonic 3) actually only Howard Drossin is credited .
Huh.. I actually didn't know that. I guess we should stick with having only Howard Drossin there, then.

Last edited by Nisto; May 30, 2010 at 01:10 PM.
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  #4  
Old Feb 17, 2011, 10:00 PM
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I replaced the forward slash with an ampersand in the display title, because that's what's used on the obi.
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  #5  
Old Feb 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
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Thanks for changing it back, Myrkul. I don't know where Boyblunder got the middle dot from. He said, on our IRC, that it has a middle dot on the case -- but I sure don't see any. The only middle dots I see are on the obi, but they use (as I said) an ampersand to divide the titles there.
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  #6  
Old Apr 9, 2011, 05:15 AM
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Is there a source for Jun Senoue, Milpo as composers for track 7?
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  #7  
Old Apr 9, 2011, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Is there a source for Jun Senoue, Milpo as composers for track 7?
For Special Stage:

LOst interviewed milpo, where it was revealed he did the special stage
http://info.sonicretro.org/Milpo_Int...ly_23,_2001%29

Furthermore, Special Stage (スペシャルステージ) appears in the Listening Booth section of the archived milpo site
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/200...mmr/booth.html

For Bonus Stage (Magnetic Orbs):

Jun Senoue's confirmed it himself when answering a fan question
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=9050

As Heran Bago wrote, "I asked one last wuestion about which was his favorite song in Sonic 3&K and 3D Blast MD. He considered and said the Bonus round with the gravity balls. (I wanted him to answer for both but oh well)."

Also, when asked which Sonic 3 tracks he did specifically, he responded as such:
"This one? ... Just the bonus round and special stage."

Furthermore, Bonus Stage (Gumball Machine) is confirmed to be Senoue's, so the other two bonus stages being his isn't too much of a stretch, as the similarities between Magentic Orbs and Slot Machine are quite high compared to either against Gumball Machine (listen to the bass and percussion)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PIqFjiSXcs - Gumball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8CX_c1quVI - Slot Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUAewrg82A - Magnetic Orbs

Last edited by kyubihanyou; Apr 9, 2011 at 07:32 AM.
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  #8  
Old Apr 9, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisto View Post
Thanks for changing it back, Myrkul. I don't know where Boyblunder got the middle dot from. He said, on our IRC, that it has a middle dot on the case -- but I sure don't see any. The only middle dots I see are on the obi, but they use (as I said) an ampersand to divide the titles there.
Funny seeings as I actually OWN the album, the spines of the case clearly display a central dot as the divide but I guess I must be making it up.
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  #9  
Old Apr 9, 2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyblunder View Post
Funny seeings as I actually OWN the album, the spines of the case clearly display a central dot as the divide but I guess I must be making it up.
You're talking about the dots in this: ソニック・アンド・ナックルズ&ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ3 ?

They're just breaking the katakana to make it easier to read I guess.
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  #10  
Old Apr 10, 2011, 01:56 AM
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Nope, it's written in English.
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  #11  
Old May 22, 2011, 10:03 AM
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I've found evidence that Senoue composed Bonus Stage (Slot Machine) (a part of Rings and Diamonds Land) through the second (and now only) unused track from Sonic 3D Blast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvTGPGDMwBw - Unused Bonus Stage

As you can hear, it includes the start of the game's Special Stage (which is definitely done by Senoue) (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=6464) and the start of Slot Machine before it loops. This officially makes Senoue the composer of all three bonus stages.

Also, for Sky Sanctuary, which in the group of Sawada, Kashima and Drossin (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood/4764/gmcd/cd74.htm) (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.p...755&start=1755)

->Drossin proves that Sky Sanctuary is not his composition via City in the Clouds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2stvbSJk4PA)

->Kashima doesn't list it on his site; only Special Stage is there, implying that that was his sole contribution for the game (http://web.archive.org/web/200105051...mmr/booth.html)

Therefore Sky Sanctuary can only be Sawada's. This song [a Sawada definite] should also be a good indicator of this.
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  #12  
Old May 22, 2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
->Drossin proves that Sky Sanctuary is not his composition via City in the Clouds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2stvbSJk4PA)
Can you explain this one further? I'm not seeing how Drossin composing that track confirms he didn't compose Sky Sanctuary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
->Kashima doesn't list it on his site; only Special Stage is there, implying that that was his sole contribution for the game (http://web.archive.org/web/200105051...mmr/booth.html)
That page is just a collection of music samples; he doesn't say anywhere that it's a complete list of his compositions. For example, he includes four pieces from Seima Densetsu 3x3 Eyes, but he doesn't include two others confirmed to be his by TIM-SMD01.

Also, he includes tracks that he definitely didn't compose, like OLGA BREEZE from Darius II.

It doesn't follow from that page that the special stage theme was his only contribution to Sonic 3.
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  #13  
Old May 22, 2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CHz View Post
Can you explain this one further? I'm not seeing how Drossin composing that track confirms he didn't compose Sky Sanctuary.
Just as Sonic and Knuckles Theme and Knucklemania reflect the "new main theme" and "Knuckles theme" Drossin said he did, tracks like City in the Clouds and Sandopolis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcstDC-ucAU) reflect that which he did not do. If he did do the original compositions for Sandopolis or Sky Sanctuary, he surely would have used them. But he didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHz View Post
That page is just a collection of music samples; he doesn't say anywhere that it's a complete list of his compositions. For example, he includes four pieces from Seima Densetsu 3x3 Eyes, but he doesn't include two others confirmed to be his by TIM-SMD01.

Also, he includes tracks that he definitely didn't compose, like OLGA BREEZE from Darius II.

It doesn't follow from that page that the special stage theme was his only contribution to Sonic 3.
I take the fact that he included more than one track from 3X3 Eyes to be representative of what he's done. His interview with LOst also shows that his contributions were limited, (and Sky Sanctuary shouldn't be a problem to mention; it's been rearranged three times, after all).

I understand this logic can also be used against me for S3 Title and Angel Island Zone Act 1, but unlike those I don't detect a general match in sound; that's why I included the Daytona USA example. Instead I believe in a dropped credit name due to departure (just as it happened with Naoaki Iwami and Toru Osada). Only Nagao and Uwabo can be hidden, as the rest remained at that time and thus would have been credited normally.
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  #14  
Old May 22, 2011, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
If he did do the original compositions for Sandopolis or Sky Sanctuary, he surely would have used them. But he didn't.
Did Drossin tell you that himself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyubihanyou View Post
I take the fact that he included more than one track from 3X3 Eyes to be representative of what he's done. His interview with LOst also shows that his contributions were limited, (and Sky Sanctuary shouldn't be a problem to mention; it's been rearranged three times, after all).
So there's nothing preventing him from having composed more than one track, then?
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  #15  
Old May 22, 2011, 07:30 PM
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This kind of evidence is way too speculative. If you have to draw a flowchart or a Venn diagram to explain the reasoning, then it probably doesn't belong on the album page.
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  #16  
Old May 24, 2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
This kind of evidence is way too speculative. If you have to draw a flowchart or a Venn diagram to explain the reasoning, then it probably doesn't belong on the album page.
Okay.... Perhaps I wasn't clear the first time. This has nothing to do with diagrams or anything complex like that. As usual it's just logic and common sense.

There's a track called "Sandopolis" and yet the original composition is not present. A few other themes (including some from Sonic Spinball) regardless of the track's title (e.g. Knucklemania, Return to the Toxic Caves [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4YnlV2AlLk]) clearly contain the original composition, so associating "City in the Clouds" with Sky Sanctuary shouldn't be an issue. Drossin utilizes the compositions of themes he's definitely done (e.g. Sonic and Knuckles Theme, Spinball Theme); simple as that.

That can only mean Drossin will use the original composition in these tracks if he was the actual composer. His nonuse of them would only mean that the originals were never his in the first place, thus Sandopolis and Sky Sanctuary are deconfirmed for Drossin, as they should be because they were created before S&K, when Drossin was merely credited for Sound Special Thanks instead of as a Music Composer (for those two themes).

Regardless, Sawada definitely composed at least one of those three tracks based on the 10th Anniversary CD information, and Sky Sanctuary is the most likely [and has the most supportive evidence] of the three to be his regardless of how many of them he actually composed.

...

I must say I'm surprised the higher ups aren't hounding me on Slot Machine instead; that one seemed a lot more speculative if you ask me. I thought that would be the one you had a problem with but it would appear I was mistaken.
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  #17  
Old Sep 14, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Holy crap, this CD just popped up on eBay for $300. O_O Guess this'll stay on the ol' wishlist for some time!
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  #18  
Old Jul 11, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Didn't somebody here want to know if that unused tune from the PC version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles was Setsumaru's? Well he told me that it wasn't his, and from the sounds of it, it appears it's actually Tatsuyuki Maeda's.

He apparently did all the 2P vs. songs for Sonic 3 (except Endless Mine), and it seems this unused tune was meant to be used for one of the VS. stages, but SEGA decided to use the current Endless Mine song over this.
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  #19  
Old Nov 25, 2012, 07:28 AM
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Nice find, dissident. However, according to the Sonic Generations OST credits, Balloon Park was composed by Jun Senoue & SEGA (probably Maeda by what you say).
I still can't get over why the f*ck composers from SEGA can't get credited on Sonic 3&K-related music.
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  #20  
Old Nov 25, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Well... It does seem that Balloon Park is Jun's song. But now I'm not so sure if Maeda did the songs I thought he wrote before, since now you have Miyoko Takaoka and Masanori Hikichi in the mix. Chrome Gadget and Azure Lake I'd still say he did, because they both sound very similar to other stuff he wrote around that time period.

As for why they dont? Who knows! Nothing but a huge legal mess. When you question people who worked on the project, they all get quiet and avoid it.
It's just video game music from almost 20 years ago! Such a niche thing, yet they all avoid it like the plague.
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  #21  
Old Dec 9, 2012, 10:24 AM
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DAMN! One of these popped up on eBay and I lost it by $3! >
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  #22  
Old Oct 25, 2013, 08:17 PM
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I bought this CD via eBay recently, and can confirm what Boyblunder said--on both the spine and on the disc itself, the title is in English only and uses a middle dot to separate the two game names. Here are photos showing exactly what it looks like in all three places.

Is there some other version of this CD without the dot?

http://imgur.com/a/k3VPc
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  #23  
Old Oct 26, 2013, 10:06 AM
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Thank you. If Boyblunder had submitted actual pictures of this earlier, I would've changed it earlier as well. That trumps the Japanese-to-English display title we're using now, but I will probably still leave the current title as an alternative.

EDIT: Also, I hope you don't mind me uploading one of your photos as proof on VGMdb (credited you of course).

Last edited by Nisto; Oct 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM.
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  #24  
Old Oct 28, 2013, 10:29 AM
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You're welcome. And yes, of course that would be fine.

I'm still curious, though, whether there are multiple versions of the CD out there. When Boyblunder said that the case contained a dot between the game titles, you said that you didn't see one--so what does the title look like on the spine of the copy you were looking at?

I also found this thread at Soundtrack Central that mentions there being two different versions, but the link to the images no longer works.

http://www.soundtrackcentral.com/for....php?pid=36164

The copy I bought on eBay looks exactly like every image I've found of the album online, though I couldn't find any that showed the spine of the case. If there is indeed another version available, I'm curious to know why that is and what it looks like.
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  #25  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 08:08 AM
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I don't remember if he sent me any more photos besides this, but this is the only photo I have left, and it doesn't even include the case spine - only the _obi_ spine at best, so... :shrug: (EDIT: On second thought, this picture might have been taken for an irrelevant context; I think he might have offered to sell it to me at one point, so maybe he never sent me an actual picture for the purpose of proving his claim) Either way, it seems to be the print most people have, so indeed it should have the middle dot on the case spine... like he said.

That print mentioned on Soundtrack Central is probably a bootleg.


EDIT 2013-11-01: I decided to remove the fourth title (line 4)... The reason is because, well, it's really just a mix of the text on the front cover (SONIC & KNUCKLES SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 3) and the title on the obi (sonic and knuckles & sonic the hedgehog 3), and not something that's directly printed anywhere (unlike our new display title), so it's just kind of farfetched.

EDIT 2014-04-18: I added some additional credits to the notes section and spiffed it up a little. I hope no one disagrees on any of the changes. Also, has anyone ever seen/heard of this TRIAD PROJECT... unit(?) before? This is the only proper reference I could find with a mention: http://www.airwave.co.jp/nextgroup/t...t/support.html

Last edited by Nisto; Apr 18, 2014 at 04:22 PM.
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  #26  
Old May 28, 2014, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewing View Post
if you play Sonic & Knuckles (not combined with Sonic 3) actually only Howard Drossin is credited .
I suppose it is very old news, but I just opened this thread today and do not see this specific statement refuted anywhere [in this thread], even though that very link does so [and in a roundabout fashion the second link does as well, in posts made after the one I quoted]. Drossin is the only person credited as "music composers," but that is immediately followed by Sega Sound Team credits. In Sonic 3 alone, only the mysterious Michael Jackson unit is listed as composers, even though nobody disputes most of that soundtrack being very Japanese. I presume Sega just wanted its "home" group listed separately. In the combined Sonic 3 & Knuckles, all the western-looking names are together as "music composers," so Drossin seems a lot less conspicuously alone, even though it then has the effect of associating him with people he probably never met or contacted.

Last edited by Garnobium; May 28, 2014 at 06:51 PM.
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  #27  
Old May 29, 2014, 02:37 AM
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Drossin is also credited in Sonic 3 as "Sound Special Thanks", yet none of his music is in the final version. I remember reading somewhere that the Virtual Sonic album that Drossin released in 1996, was actually recorded in 1993. (the same time the music for S3&K would have been written). this is interesting, since that album includes the main theme of S&K. (and also some songs from Sonic Spinball and a beta song from Comix Zone :P)

so while it's possible (and most likely TBH) that Drossin had written the S&K exclusive stuff before the release of Sonic 3 in early 1994, it makes you wonder why Sega would contract him to do it in the first place when they could had their in-house sound team do it. Remember that they had already contracted CUBE to assist on the soundtrack as well, with Miyoko Takaoka doing Marble Garden and an unused bonus stage theme, and Hikichi probably doing songs as well. (need to confirm that)

it seems that every time you find something new about this soundtrack, another contradiction or mystery appears :P

PS, I take back what I said above about Tatsuyuki Maeda doing most of the soundtrack.
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  #28  
Old Jun 29, 2014, 11:14 AM
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I've heard somewhere that Jun also wrote the first act boss score in S&K.

Did anyone try to contact Japanese composers? It's better to give them the links to the actual songs on youtube instead of asking "did you made the angel island zone track?"

I've met Roger Hector 2 years ago, but totally forgot to ask about S3/S&K music. Although, he barely knows what is what according to interviews with him.

Btw, the cd is on sale now Just $360: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonic-and-Kn...item2ed2a55442
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  #29  
Old Jun 29, 2014, 11:30 AM
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where did you see that? Jun only handled the bonus stage themes and some of the jingles, as far as I know.

and that's also been done before, however many (most) of them say it's not their song, or they don't respond at all.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 02:35 PM
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I can't really find it now. It was about 4 years ago - I came up to a message on some sonic-related forum with a guy saying that he's sure Jun did the Act 1 boss theme. I've just remembered this. Would like to find that post again and ask the guy where did he get that info.
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