#1
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About titles (Animex, Ongakushuu, Kyokushuu…)
I open a thread about questions I have, and rules about titles. Anisonfan did a lot of edits about albums titles recently, and these edits make me react.
So Anisonfan, I have nothing against you, but it's good to talk about it with other members on the forum. I notice you have added "Animex 1200" (and also Animex 1300, Animex 1200 Special…) in the display title for all the albums of this collection, but I think it’s really a bad idea. "Animex 1200" is just the name of the collection and doesn’t appear on the first print, and also doesn’t appear on the cover, just on the obi. It would be better to put "Animex 1200" on the third line. Same thing for "Animex 1300" and "Animex 1200 Special". In order to give another example, we have the collection "Columbia Sound Treasure Series" and it’s written on the third line, not on the display title: https://vgmdb.net/album/81456 Now in my collection all the albums "Animex 1200" are together, I don’t like that, I prefer to have the albums in alphabetical order. What do the staff and other members think about that? Examples of edited albums : https://vgmdb.net/album/24151 https://vgmdb.net/album/27012 https://vgmdb.net/album/99882 Anisonfan you have also changed the translation of "ヒット曲集/Hit Kyoskushuu" by "Hit Collection" instead "Hit Song Collection" for all the albums. I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, but I always saw "Hit Song Collection" for the translation. I've always heard of albums named "Dragon Ball Z Hit Song Collection": https://vgmdb.net/album/42830 https://vgmdb.net/album/32145 Then you put "Ongakushuu" on the first line for all the albums with "音楽集" in the title: https://vgmdb.net/album/52829 But personally I understood that we translated by "Music Collection" on the 1st line according to the guidelines, and that we put "Ongakushuu" on the 3rd line (the romanized line). And on the contrary you put "Hit Collection" in 1st line and "Hit Kyokushuu" in 3rd line. There is no logic. We have to agree on a well-established rule, either put "Ongakushuu" and "Kyokushuu" in the first line, or it’s "Music Collection" and "Hit (Song) Collection" first. |
#2
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I had a fair amount of heartburn over these edits at first, but ultimately they generally fit in with our title practices.
1. Animex 1200 prepend We have a fair amount of precedent for including the series on the title (mostly with older anime releases). https://vgmdb.net/search?q=series You do make a good point though about Animex not showing up on the front cover. It is pretty prominent on the Obi though. As these are all reprints, I would bet that they didn't want to redesign the cover assets, so they used the parent album's cover with minimal changes. I know we can't infer their thought process with any accuracy, and there are at least a couple of ANIMEX albums where they moved titles around, or made other changes. In the end, I am not so concerned about this because this is one series of reprints, and the parent albums are still in the catalog alphabetically. 2. ヒット曲集 This one is tricky. The phrase 曲集 translates to "collection (of musical pieces); studies; album; suite; ED" on WWJDICT. One rule we usually follow is to use any English text on the Front Cover in the display titles. Unfortunately, this has been rendered in English in many different ways on albums we have here: All Sounds of.... https://vgmdb.net/album/199 (全)曲集 (Complete) Song Box https://vgmdb.net/album/7824 Music Collection https://vgmdb.net/album/68275 I think I am more in agreement with you on it being Hit Song Collection rather than Collection, maybe Hit Music Collection for non vocals. 3. Ongakushuu in Display Title I did a quick search. There are 925 albums with 音楽集 in the title. Of them, only 354 of them have Ongakushuu in the display title (and some of those are recent edits by Anisonfan.) I know that in the past, as you said, we always translated any part of the title that described the album rather than the contents, so stuff like Music Collection, etc. I prefer that way myself, but there has been a slow movement away from doing this for years. I guess I don't have a good answer for this one right now. |
#3
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I would use these when no official title is given: 曲集 = Song Collection 楽曲集 = Music Collection 音楽集 = Music Collection + add "Complete" if it has a 全 prefix. |
#4
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I think the real point is "all or nothing", we don't have a database uniformity, it's just about user preferences and it's happen only for famous products/series (Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya, ecc...). Since I don't think newbie or external users search for "Music Collection" in search field, but by titles or at least by catalogue number, I think it's better to add standard romaji in first line, at least translation in fourth line. Quote:
Last edited by depa; Jul 1, 2020 at 12:16 AM. |
#5
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These should be "Music Compilation" (Or "Music Volume")?
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#6
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I think "compilation"
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#7
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Hello,
many question on the same post... ok i will try to say something: - I think that is not a good idea to display the artifact title "Music Collection" when the original is "Ongakushuu" because one loses the fact that the original title is "Ongakushuu" as the producer wanted to indicate, and not "Music Collection". - Moreover, nowdays there are some old series (excpecially tokusatsu, an example: Flashman) that have both the "Ongakushuu" album and the (true) "Music Collection" album. To display both with "Music Collection" can create ambiguity. - If there is the problem that one user can search "Music Collection" or "Music Compilation" or "Hit Songs" with no results, maybe a good idea to introduce some new feature in the search engine by matching, for example: "Music Collection" with "ongakushuu" "Music Compilation" with "ongakuhen" "Hit Songs" with "hit kyokushuu" In this manner is no more necessary to add a partially translated title, preserving the complete original romanized title. Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 2, 2020 at 01:44 AM. |
#8
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Thanks for your answer Secret Squirrel, and for the other posts too.
I answer your 3 points: 1. The difference with other series on VGMdb is that the albums of the Animex 1200 collection at the base were not in a series and are all reprints. This is why it bothers me to have "Animex 1200" in the display title. The fact is that if we only have "Animex 1200" in the 3rd line, we can always find these albums with the search engine. 2. Yes so it wasn't really necessary to replace all "Hit Song Collection" with "Hit Collection". 3. So if we translate well into English, it would be better to put "Music Collection" and "Hit Song Collection" in first line (as it was before on VGMdb actually). But if we leave "Ongakushuu" in the 1st line, it would be better to put "Hit Kyokushuu" in the 1st line also for more consistency. Quote:
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Is that why you don't put "Hit Kyokushuu" on the 1st line, because few albums are really called "Hit (Song) Collection", and so there is no confusion? |
#9
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- ヒット曲集
"Hit Kyokushuu" is used on Columbia albums to indicates a vocal album with normally 10 tracks. So, in that cases, is correct to think that Hit Kyokushuu is a song collection and not a generical piece-of-music collection. Columbia has released two (or more?) albums where Hit Kyokushuu is also translated as "HIT SONGS": https://vgmdb.net/album/71440 https://vgmdb.net/album/83184 According with this translation I suggest to translate ヒット曲集 on Columbia albums as "Hit Songs", or show the original "Hit Kyokushuu" and the "Hit Songs" in the other lines. Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 2, 2020 at 11:42 PM. |
#10
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- ANIMEX 1200 (1300, special) series
ANIMEX 1200 is really a CD series, each volume is also numbered, and the Animex 1200 NNN is also reported on the sides and on the disc label. Moreover each Animex 1200 has a new mastering respect the previous releases. I think is a good idea to show the series and the number in the title. - Columbia Sound Treasure Series. As the name says also the "Columbia Sound Treasure Series" is a Series. It recurs on each Columbia page and subpage: https://columbia.jp/soundtreasure/ and is indicated in each CD obi. Show the name series in the title can be also good to immediately focus on what one is dealing with. Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 3, 2020 at 03:54 AM. |
#11
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#12
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#13
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COCC-13584~5 Choushinsei Flashman MUSIC COLLECTION CX-7274 Choushinsei Flashman Ongakushuu Before my edits you read both with Music Collection, and this is not a good thing. This because the title for CX-7274 showed an english translation and not the original reading "ongakushuu". Another example can be Maskman where we have MUSIC COLLECTION(s) and Ongakushuu(s) albums: https://vgmdb.net/search?q=Maskman+ We can also consider my idea: - If there is the problem that one user can search "Music Collection" or "Music Compilation" or "Hit Songs" with no results, maybe a good idea to introduce some new feature in the search engine by matching, for example: "Music Collection" with "ongakushuu" "Music Compilation" with "ongakuhen" "Hit Songs" with "hit kyokushuu" In this manner is no more necessary to add a partially translated title, preserving the complete original romanized title. The idea is to improve the search engine with suggestion tips. |
#14
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Can you please wait until we've reached some sort of agreement before changing more titles?
I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad idea, just hold off on it for a bit while we decide. |
#15
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Okay no problem... standby mode on... it was not clear that you were making a decision
Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 4, 2020 at 07:08 AM. |
#16
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I don't see the problem with two different albums from the same series ending up with the same title as the English display title. It happens often enough when the publisher decides not to translate anything. The Japanese and Romaji titles resolve the difference.
Japanese just has more choices for differentiating things. There are words that they can write in kanji or one of the kana scripts. Albums with those words in the title would have different titles in a list, so easy to tell apart there, but we have no way to distinguish them here (other than doing something clever with capitalization.) |
#17
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#18
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One thing we do have, in the user-preferences tab, is the ability to apply a site-wide filter so that it always shows title line 2 (original) or title line 3 (romaji) instead of the first line (display) for titles whenever titles are displayed (like in search results). Some people browse the site that way (though it makes it more challenging as an editor I think.)
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#19
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Leaving "Hit Song(s) Collection" in the titles therefore remains the best thing to do, with the most keywords to help the user through the search engine. Then I don’t understand your logic, why accept "Hit Songs" in the 1st line and not "Music Collection?" Quote:
In addition with the atypical catalog number COCC-72---, between us Anisonfan you must guess for your part right away that it is an Animex 1200 album... Quote:
And here too I guess you don't like as it is currently presented? : https://vgmdb.net/album/27972 However for me it's very good like that, to have the name of the series in the 3rd line is enough, no need to have it in the 1st line. Quote:
However, you didn't either when you submitted the albums, you didn't put the Animex 1200 in the first line, nor the Time Capsule... And you didn't mind ... And personally I haven’t put any of these series names in display title. About Dendou Twin, it's different, it takes 2 or 3 different albums at the same time. As for Saishin Manga these are some compilations, Time Capsule series are reprints on CD (added by Anisonfan in display title too), and Time Trips are not reprints, they are mini CD which contain songs from 2 different animes. And then these series are not comparable with the Animex 1200 series which contains a much larger number of albums to list. |
#20
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For example if I read ANIMEX 1200, I can immediately say that it is a remaster of a past edition If I read "EVER GREEN SERIES" or "FOR EVER SERIES" I can immediately say that it is a compilation that has a song collection + bgm collection. About Takarajima, let's take this title: https://vgmdb.net/album/58088 It makes little sense without "FOR EVER SERIES". Quote:
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FINAL CONSIDERATION: I think and hope that a new possibility offered by the system in the management of the "series" can satisfy everyone Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 4, 2020 at 09:06 PM. |
#21
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#22
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Why can't we create a "Series" line that would work same as products represented; when you click on it it would redirect you to a series page where all related releases are gathered.
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#23
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I'm not the only one who submitted the albums this way, and before you edit the display titles, apparently it doesn't bother staff and other users. The other lines are also used to put keywords (just like the series names) that can be found with the search engine by users. Maybe you also prefer to have the name of the series in the first line because you classify your albums by series in your collection? And so finally it remains only a question of personal taste? Quote:
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#24
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So for me "Hit Collection" is a good translation. The other option is to use "Hit Songs" as Columbia does it in two (or more) albums. Quote:
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Before to edit the large "ANIMEX 1200" series i've edited the smallest "ANIMEX 1300" series for the first 10 titles. And only after a pause, with no contraidications, I contined the work that I realized you don't like |
#25
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Apparently there is only the 1st line of the title that matters to you and the other lines are useless... Quote:
Anyway if it doesn't bother anyone else, I suppose we'll leave it like that and I'll get used to it… |
#26
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Just wanted to chime in and say we're still talking about these things internally and trying to come up with some guidelines to keep entries consistent. Will have some more updates about it soon.
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I would probably still keep ANIMEX in the title given its prominence in the spine/obi though, even if we add that feature. I don't really think we've ever been concerned about alphabetical order in collections when deciding on an album title, that's more of a limitation that should be fixed on the collection side of the website rather than tweaking titles for it. |
#27
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It may be useful to collect more opinions. |
#28
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I already explained it before, you want to have all the details of the title on the 1st line. I don’t pretend to know you, I just see how you react here, nothing more. Quote:
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#29
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Instead, I seem to have understood that you prefer to omit information on the 1st line and use the other lines as tag containers. Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 7, 2020 at 02:21 PM. |
#30
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After some research I found other evidence to support the thesis that the Japanese prefer to translate "Hit Kyokushuu (ヒット曲集)" as "Hit Songs". On the other hand, I have not found any evidence regarding the translation "Hit Song Collection" ...
The previous ones are: https://vgmdb.net/album/71438 https://vgmdb.net/album/83184 Last edited by anisonfan; Jul 22, 2020 at 02:02 PM. |
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