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  #1  
Old May 11, 2015, 08:06 PM
SaintSquall SaintSquall is offline
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Infos about the manga:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_of_Deimos
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...ga.php?id=1613

Tracklist and Credits (No found Anison's page):
https://joshinweb.jp/dp/4988001932963.html

There are 2 translations in Romaji for the title: Akuma no Hanayome, and Deimos no Hanayome (which is more an alternative title).
English Wikipedia says "Deimosu no Hanayome", but everywhere else on the web, it says "Deimos".
And Japanese Wikipedia says too "Deimos", so I have let this for the alternative title.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%...83%A2%E3%82%B9

The manga "Bride of Deimos" has an English print, and the authors are written in Romaji on the cover:
http://www.amazon.com/Bride-Deimos-V.../dp/1588991954
So for 池田 悦子 we have Etsuko Ikeda
and for あしべゆうほ Yuho Ashibe.

Better: on this page we have too the official English Title for the Japanese print, "the Bride of the Demon", and the names of the authors are written again.
http://www.zerochan.net/74675
(remark: Yuho Ashibe is written with a macron)

And the romanization of 伊藤 かずえ is Kazue Itoh (with a "h" at the end :-) ):
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/COCP-33031
(see the right orthography on the jacket; this CD Best Of contains too some songs from "Bride of Deimos")

More infos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazue_Itoh

Remark: "Kazue Ito" seems good too, we have this translation on the vinyl:
http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/f...ng/en?rc=yaucc
(see very well the second scan, lines 9 and 12)

And finally a little bonus, the song 'THE RE-IN-CARNATION" sung by the great Norio Sakai, enjoy ^^ :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEZm0Zs5CM

Last edited by SaintSquall; May 11, 2015 at 08:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old May 11, 2015, 09:01 PM
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Illidan Illidan is offline
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Deimos no Hanayome isn't an alternative title, it's the correct one. デイモス is the furigana for 悪魔. The English title doesn't appear on the release from what I can see, so the romaji should be default here.

The Bride of the Demon looks like a bad translation job from the 1994 reprint, but it's official nonetheless so it can stay as alternative title.
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  #3  
Old May 11, 2015, 10:11 PM
SaintSquall SaintSquall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
Deimos no Hanayome isn't an alternative title, it's the correct one. デイモス is the furigana for 悪魔.
Ah! That story of furiganas! I've just given a look to Wikipedia and I begin to understand now. So, Deimos no Hanayome would be the correct title, OK. And "Akuma no Hanayome" can't be named like an alternative title? I see that the track 05 "悪魔の花嫁" is translated by "The Bride of the Devil", and not "The Bride of Deimos", it is because there's not furigana here?

Quote:
The Bride of the Demon looks like a bad translation job from the 1994 reprint,
Why do you think that it's bad? Maybe that "Akuma no Hanayome" is correct for the Japaneses too? (That's just an interrogation)

And I remark that you add the tracks numbers for Columbia Orchestra and Drama Cast (with the infos provided by Joshinweb, i suppose). I have hesitated to mention them too, but I didn't put them, because in the CD print, these tracks are not written, neither in the booklet nor on the jacket (I have the CD).

Last edited by SaintSquall; May 11, 2015 at 10:16 PM.
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  #4  
Old May 11, 2015, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintSquall View Post
Ah! That story of furiganas! I've just given a look to Wikipedia and I begin to understand now. So, Deimos no Hanayome would be the correct title, OK. And "Akuma no Hanayome" can't be named like an alternative title? I see that the track 05 "悪魔の花嫁" is translated by "The Bride of the Devil", and not "The Bride of Deimos", it is because there's not furigana here?
No, Akuma no Hanayome is an incorrect reading. The track doesn't have furigana and it's translated too, so obviously that's fine.

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Originally Posted by SaintSquall View Post
Why do you think that it's bad? Maybe that "Akuma no Hanayome" is correct for the Japaneses too? (That's just an interrogation)
They even omitted the furigana from those covers, I wouldn't consider them accurate. It's not really unusual for them to screw up translations.

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Originally Posted by SaintSquall View Post
And I remark that you add the tracks numbers for Columbia Orchestra and Drama cast (with the infos provided at Joshinweb, i suppose). I have hesitated to mention them too, but I didn't put them, because in the CD print, these tracks are not written, neither in the booklet nor on the jacket (I have the CD).
Animex booklets are quite scarce with info sometimes. Joshinweb is generally reliable and quite specific in this case (with the orchestra only on the drama tracks without vocals), so I don't see why not.
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  #5  
Old May 12, 2015, 02:51 AM
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layzee layzee is offline
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Without knowing anything about this product, I'm going to say that both "Deimos no Hanayome" and "Akuma no Hanayome" are equally valid titles. While Akuma no Hanayome may or may not be the "officially correct" title, it is definitely not an incorrect reading - quite the contrary, most people would have assumed it to be so had the "furigana" not existed and there would be no possible way a normal person would have derived "Deimos" from the Kanji. Accordingly, "Bride of Deimos" is a perfectly accurate English translation.

To put it another way, while the main function of furigana is to indicate the reading of a Kanji or Kanjis, that is not its only purpose. It does two things here: to specify the name of this particular demon (i.e. Deimos), and to communicate to the reader of the existence of an alternate title (i.e. Deimos no Hanayome). The first function (adding more detail or "flavour") is commonly seen in manga. An example could be something like 貴方(or even just あなた) and its "furigana" would be [protagonist's name].

Quote:
Another use is to write the kanji for something which had been previously referenced, but write furigana for sore (それ) or are (あれ), meaning "that". This means that the actual word used was "that", but the kanji clarify for the reader what "that" refers to.
Quote:
A similar practice is used in native fiction to clarify extended meanings. For example, in a work of science fiction, some astronaut could use the word ふるさと, furusato, meaning "my hometown", when referring to planet Earth. To clarify that for the reader, the word furusato (hometown) might be written in hiragana over the kanji for chikyuu (Earth).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana

The topics and ideas expressed in this post can also be applied to other albums on the website in which the Kanji's standard readings do not match the "furigana" paired with it.

Last edited by layzee; May 12, 2015 at 02:55 AM.
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  #6  
Old May 12, 2015, 03:16 AM
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Phonograph Phonograph is offline
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btw, romanization is transcription, not translation

Last edited by Phonograph; May 12, 2015 at 03:20 AM.
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  #7  
Old May 12, 2015, 04:32 AM
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Illidan Illidan is offline
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@layzee: that doesn't change the fact that the reading of the manga title is Deimos no Hanayome.

You're also wrong about it being the alternate title, it's the way you're supposed to read it. Of course the phrase as a whole has another connotation (indicating that Deimos is a demon), but that's outside the scope of the album title here, and it shouldn't be included. I get different people have different tastes regarding this, but this is the guideline we follow.

This is also reflected by the official English translation, which is "Bride of Deimos" like it should.
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Last edited by Illidan; May 12, 2015 at 04:34 AM.
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  #8  
Old May 12, 2015, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
@layzee: that doesn't change the fact that the reading of the manga title is Deimos no Hanayome.

You're also wrong about it being the alternate title, it's the way you're supposed to read it.
The way you're supposed to read 悪魔の花婿 is Akuma no Hanamuko (absent of any furigana/further information). The way you're supposed to refer to the product can be Akuma or Deimos, leaning towards Deimos. How are Japanese people going to type 悪魔 in the first place? So even if Deimos no Hanayome is the 100% correct be-all end-all title, Akuma effectively becomes the de-facto title by necessity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
This is also reflected by the official English translation, which is "Bride of Deimos" like it should.
Why is the official English translation acceptable but not this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintSquall View Post
Better: on this page we have too the official English Title for the Japanese print, "the Bride of the Demon", and the names of the authors are written again.
http://www.zerochan.net/74675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
The Bride of the Demon looks like a bad translation job from the 1994 reprint, but it's official nonetheless so it can stay as alternative title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintSquall View Post
Why do you think that it's bad? Maybe that "Akuma no Hanayome" is correct for the Japaneses too? (That's just an interrogation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
They even omitted the furigana from those covers, I wouldn't consider them accurate. It's not really unusual for them to screw up translations.
In what way is "The Bride of the Demon" a "bad" and "inaccurate" translation?

Here is the official manga cover: http://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auc...vfo0o14262.jpg

It consists of three titles: 悪魔の花婿, デイモスの花婿, and The Bride of the Demon.
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  #9  
Old May 12, 2015, 10:06 AM
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Illidan Illidan is offline
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How is the way you read it without furigana relevant at all? It's there to tell you how to read the thing, not to offer a choice.

The correct reading/transcription of the title with furigana, the only relevant one as far as the title goes, is Deimos no Hanayome.

The Bride of the Demon is a bad translation, in my opinion, because it ignores the way you're supposed to read the manga title.

Quote:
It consists of three titles: 悪魔の花婿, デイモスの花婿, and The Bride of the Demon.
No. It consists of the japanese title "悪魔(デイモス)の花嫁" and an english translation "The Bride of the Demon", and anyone who sees the japanese will read it as "Deimos no Hanayome", certainly not Akuma no Hanayome.
Also that's not the original manga cover, it's a reprint. The original one didn't have any translation.
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Last edited by Illidan; May 12, 2015 at 10:09 AM.
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  #10  
Old May 12, 2015, 10:25 AM
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@layzee: I'm curious to know how you found 花婿 when it's supposed to be 花嫁
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  #11  
Old May 12, 2015, 11:34 AM
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This is my third and final post on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
How is the way you read it without furigana relevant at all?
It is relevant because if it wasn't there, everyone would (rightly) believe the title to be Akuma no Hanayome. Hence, "The Bride of the Demon" is not a bad translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
It's there to tell you how to read the thing, not to offer a choice.
If it's not there to offer a choice, then why does 悪魔 exist in the first place? All doubts could be removed by simply naming it Deimos no Hanayome. Furthermore, all media showing the title shows the Kanji only or the Kanji + Deimos, but not Deimos by itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
The Bride of the Demon is a bad translation, in my opinion, because it ignores the way you're supposed to read the manga title.
Then it could be argued that The Bride of Deimos is equally bad because it ignores the Kanji part of the title.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
No. It consists of the japanese title "悪魔(デイモス)の花嫁" and an english translation "The Bride of the Demon", and anyone who sees the japanese will read it as "Deimos no Hanayome", certainly not Akuma no Hanayome.
Anyone who sees 悪魔の花嫁 without prior knowledge of it will read it as Akuma no Hanayome. Those who look up a little will then additionally read it as Deimos no Hanayome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illidan View Post
Also that's not the original manga cover, it's a reprint. The original one didn't have any translation.
Changing of the goal posts here. It might be a reprint but it doesn't make "The Bride of the Demon" (which you disapprove of) any less official and certainly not less official than "The Bride of Deimos" (which you approve of) of the English version (which is technically also a reprint). Either both of these are valid or both are invalid but not one of the other.

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Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
@layzee: I'm curious to know how you found 花婿 when it's supposed to be 花嫁
Just a simple typo there.
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  #12  
Old May 12, 2015, 12:56 PM
SaintSquall SaintSquall is offline
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Well, what a story!
I don't have enough knowledge in Kanjis, Furiganas and romanization to say who has right here.
Just I think that Layzee has some expected arguments.
I notice too that for the OAV directed by Rintaro in 1988 (so an adaptation from the manga, with the same character Deimos), Anime News Network and Wikipedia (and other reputable sites) put "Akuma No Hanayome" for the translation. That's just a remark...
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=3327
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rintar%C5%8D
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Old May 12, 2015, 01:05 PM
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don't trust animenoobsnetwork, they are mainly bad at anything
their listing is a mess, with wrong dates, with super bad romanizations (I remember a "shin tanaru" instead of "arata naru")
as for wikipedia, ahaha no comment

btw, romanization is a transcription, not a translation (how many times should I say it? --and on another note and in order to play teacher it's "to be right/wrong" and "to agree" not "to be agree" if you can remember that saintsquall that'd be cool )
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Old May 12, 2015, 01:22 PM
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@SaintSquall: there's no argument here. The way furigana works is not an opinion, and more importantly the way it's handled here is pretty straightforward and doesn't leave room for doubts.

Personal preferences as for ignoring furigana or handling it in different ways are irrelevant, just as my opinion on the "bad translation" is, which is why it's in the album title regardless (@layzee: no one ever said that's not official, by the way).

ANN and Wikipedia may follow different guidelines, but that doesn't really concern this album title. Obviously the furigana is also very clearly printed on the OVA, in case there was a doubt http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp...0/273-2164.jpg
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Old May 12, 2015, 01:30 PM
SaintSquall SaintSquall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
don't trust animenoobsnetwork, they are mainly bad at anything
their listing is a mess, with wrong dates, with super bad romanizations (I remember a "shin tanaru" instead of "arata naru")
as for wikipedia, ahaha no comment
Anime News Networks and Wikipedia can do some errors, of course, but they provide some good and useful informations too, sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
btw, romanization is a transcription, not a translation (how many times should I say it? --and on another note and in order to play teacher it's "to be right/wrong" and "to agree" not "to be agree" if you can remember that saintsquall that'd be cool )
Translation, transcription... Is that so important for you? And yes, i think you are playing a bit the teacher...
By the way, Phonograph, you don't say your opinion about Deimos/Akuma no Hanayome... That seems the most important here, no?

Last edited by SaintSquall; May 12, 2015 at 01:33 PM.
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Old May 12, 2015, 01:43 PM
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my "teaching" is more for myrkul actually, I so hate when he speaks english (it's a catastrophe)
translation/transcription, it's not a matter whether it's important or not but a matter of using the right term (when you see a guy like layzee makes people think he knows what furigana is, big joke)

as for that discussion, my opinion (since it's asked) is that the title of the manga or whatever is definitely "deimos no hanayome" as seen in the "logo" of the name
I think that the "akuma no hanayome: the bride of the devil" track isn't directly related to the manga title, it's just a trackname
and for english translation, it's maybe just a subtitle acting like a translation (just to throw all of you in a trap ;p)
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Old May 12, 2015, 02:15 PM
SaintSquall SaintSquall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
as for that discussion, my opinion (since it's asked) is that the title of the manga or whatever is definitely "deimos no hanayome" as seen in the "logo" of the name
I think that the "akuma no hanayome: the bride of the devil" track isn't directly related to the manga title, it's just a trackname
Ok so you agree with Illidan.
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Old Dec 7, 2016, 04:30 PM
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Track 1 gives an interesting homage to "Eye of the Tiger"
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