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  #31  
Old Jan 29, 2016, 06:25 PM
MEATWART MEATWART is offline
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Originally Posted by dissident93 View Post
Angel Island? Well the Sonic 10th anniversary cd credits Tomonori Sawada and Yoshiaki Kashima

Special Stage? The one with Blue/Red spheres? Yoshiaki Kashima definitely did that one. Said it in some e-mail back in 2001.

And Hydrocity was by MJ, Brad Buxer, and Cirocco Jones. while the act 2 arrangement was done by Masayuki Nagao.
Hey dissident93, great work over the years. How did you find out that Jackson and crew did Hydrocity and that Nagao arranged Act 2? Hydrocity always had such a solid MJ-like groove to it and I wanted to make sure there isn't some interview I've missed somewhere.
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  #32  
Old Jan 29, 2016, 07:48 PM
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I don't think he or his team did Hydrocity anymore, not after the fact that Miyoko Takaoka did Marble Garden. Neither Hydrocity or Marble Garden's songs were replaced in the PC version from 1996, when every other confirmed MJ song was. Not to mention the fact that both Hydrocity and Marble Garden have a legit Act 2 remix, when all confirmed MJ songs (and ones that are 99% certain to be his, but not confirmed) have Act 2s that are pretty much the same as the Act 1 arrangement, with just slight changes. (Carnival Night Act 1 / Act 2, Ice Cap Act 1 / Act 2, etc)

So who composed Hydrocity? Not confirmed in the slightest, but for some reason I'm thinking it was Masanori Hikichi, who worked at CUBE (credited in the game) alongside Takaoka at the time (see Terranigma). I remember asking Masayuki Nagao (who was credited alongside Hikichi in Mean Bean Machine in 1993, around the same time that work on Sonic 3 would have begun) if Hikichi and Takaoka worked on Sonic 3, and he said "I think so", which led me to contacting Takaoka, who confirmed her involvement. I haven't ever had the chance to ask Takaoka if that's his track, but she might not even remember and I'd rather not continue to bother her. If somebody can get a hold of Hikichi though, we could ask.

EDIT: Small detail, but Takaoka's Japanese Wikipedia page listing Sonic 3 is what led me to asking Nagao in the first place, if anybody cares. Seems like Takaoka put that info there herself.

Last edited by dissident93; Jan 29, 2016 at 08:13 PM.
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  #33  
Old Jan 29, 2016, 08:56 PM
drdevilfx drdevilfx is online now
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I personally think Hydrocity Zone may have been composed by Tatsuyuki Maeda, due its similarities with Rusty Ruins, Diamond Dust and his works in general. Though, I've recently been getting my doubts about this, after getting more familiar with his style.

I think getting a hold of Hikichi would be impossible. :/
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  #34  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 01:42 PM
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As the years go by, the more I am convinced that Hydrocity was composed by either MJ or one of his crew. The Huffpost article reinvigorated my thinking about it. The song is just unlike anything else ever composed by Maeda, Hikichi, or any of the Japanese composers who worked on Sonic 3 really. It's not just that it's funky and jazzy- yes they have written funky and jazzy tracks. It's the voicings, the changes, and arcs of the melodies, the rhythms, the arrangement. Really the quality of it. It's just American through and through. It sounds so much closer to the work MJ's songwriters and arrangers were doing in that era, than any of those Japanese composers. I will say, if Hydrocity Act 2 IS one of those Japanese composers, then it's by far the best track they've ever composed. I'm a fan of Terranigma, 3D Blast, Golden Axe 3, etc. as much as the next guy, but there is nothing in any of those soundtracks that match the level of melodic and rhythmic craft that is Hydrocity Act 2. However, when I look at the songs composed by the likes of Brad Buxer and Michael Jackson, it just fits with their level of talent and their output. And their musical style.

I wonder if we'll ever really know!
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  #35  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 02:04 PM
drdevilfx drdevilfx is online now
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Hydrocity Zone Act 2 was rearranged by Masayuki Nagao. Hydrocity Zone Act 1 is definitely a Japanese composition, as it was reused for Sonic & Knuckles Collection. All tracks suspected to have been composed by the MJ crew were removed from that game.
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  #36  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by drdevilfx View Post
Hydrocity Zone Act 2 was rearranged by Masayuki Nagao. Hydrocity Zone Act 1 is definitely a Japanese composition, as it was reused for Sonic & Knuckles Collection. All tracks suspected to have been composed by the MJ crew were removed from that game.
See, this is one problem I have with the current info we have. I'm sorry but Hydrocity Act 2 is NOT an arrangement or a remix of Act 1. From a musical perspective, it is almost an entirely new piece of music. The A section is inspired by the A section of Act 1, yes...but the B section and C section (the best parts of the track, and the entire soundtrack IMO) are entirely new melodic material. This track wasn't just an arrangement of an existing track. This is a new piece of music that was intentionally and specifically composed. It is unlike any other Act 2 track in the game, with how unique it is from Act 1. To only call this an arrangement, and to say that Nagao "arranged" it is only half the story. He may have worked on the arrangement, but who composed the new, amazing melodic material? Because nothing that I've heard from Nagao, or any of the Japanese composers I've seen mentioned comes close to this style and quality.

Just my thoughts.
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  #37  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 03:04 PM
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Did you read what I said above? I'm 99% positive Hydrocity is not anything from MJ or his team. What you said proves my point, with the Act 2 version of Hydrocity sounding nothing like most other Act 2 themes in the game, with exceptions given to Angel Island and Marble Garden. (two tracks we know 100% for sure were written by Japanese composers, and thus not MJ). Also, Nagao confirmed years ago he was the one who wrote Hydrocity Act 2, so I'll take his word over any "disbelief" he couldn't write anything like that.

To recap, MJ and his team heavily used vocal/unique percussion samples in their tracks, and every single one of their confirmed pieces were removed in the PC collection, while Hydrocity didn't use samples at all, and wasn't replaced. The song is also stylistically different from anything MJ and his team did for the game (heavily emphasizes melody over dance beats), and has similar instrumentation to Lava Reef Act 2, which Nagao told me he also wrote. It's still possible MJ or one of his crew members wrote Hydrocity, but unless one of them confirms it, I'll go with it being a Japanese composition.

Slightly off topic, but I'm starting to think more and more than there were other uncredited Japanese composers on the soundtrack. From all the research I've and others have done (from process of elimination), it comes down to Tatsuyuki Maeda and Sachio Ogawa doing around half of the soundtrack. The problem is that Maeda's style isn't obvious here, so he may have had just a minor role akin to Senoue, and Ogawa wouldn't have been a lead composer on the project, not with the more senior composers on the project. Others have suggested Naofumi Hataya and Masafumi Ogata, but I'm 99% sure they didn't work on Sonic 3 because they were both in-house Sega composers (why would Sega omit them?), and Hataya's Wave Master profile doesn't list Sonic 3. Not to mention both would have been busy working on Sonic CD at the time anyway. I've still never figured out Opus Corp's role in the game either. (They were credited alongside Howard Drossin and Cube, both confirmed to have written music for the project). Apparently, Opus' once stated on their website that they did "eight tracks", which would fit nicely with what we know.

@drdevilfx I don't hear any Maeda in Hydrocity Zone, mind pointing out where?

Last edited by dissident93; Feb 3, 2016 at 03:33 PM.
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  #38  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 03:28 PM
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Yes, I read it, and also your info from years ago that he arranged Act 2. Which I have seen in other places as well. My point is that the only crediting he has ever gotten is for the arrangement of the track, not the composing. For example, on Sega Retro, it lists "Arrangement." Not "Music and Arrangement" like it does for tracks that he composed. What if he arranged musical ideas that were provided in MJ team's demo tape? I'm talking about the B and C sections. That seems much more likely (when comparing them to MJ's music) than him composing those sections himself. Did he ever say that he composed Hydrocity?
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  #39  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 03:40 PM
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By "arranging Act 2", he means that he took Act 1 (written by another Japanese composer, most likely) and added his new spin on it. All the original stuff in Act 2 would be his, if that is what you are wondering. But like I said above, I don't believe Hyrocity to be a song from MJ, but I suppose it's still possible.
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  #40  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 03:50 PM
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Ahh gotcha. Yeah, it's so interesting, Hydrocity Act 2 is the most curious and mysterious case for me in all of this lore. It's by far my favorite Sonic track, and to me is the most MJesque out of anything in the game melodically, so it would be ironic if it wasn't composed by him. Particularly in the Chorus (C section) how the melody lands on the Maj 7 of the Ab chord followed by the Maj 6 of the Bb chord. That repeated note with a changing harmonic relationship is vintage MJ!
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  #41  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 04:00 PM
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It's also likely that the Japanese composers intentionally tried to emulate MJ's style, and whoever did Hydrocity got it right. Masaru Setsumaru (who helped program the sound driver) told a friend of mine that he "was excited to work with MJ", so the Japanese composers knew about MJ's involvement.

Last edited by dissident93; Feb 3, 2016 at 04:03 PM.
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  #42  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 09:59 PM
MEATWART MEATWART is offline
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I was just looking through the S&K instruction manual credits:

sk-credits.jpg

Have we ever heard anything from the Sound Coordinator Hisaki Nimiya? If there's anyone who knows the entire story, my guess is it'd be him/her. A quick search brings up a Twitter and Linkedin account, but it doesn't seem to be a unique name (several facebook results for example.)

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any info on "Masanori Nakayama" of "Studio Who"? I couldn't find ANYTHING on Google.
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  #43  
Old Feb 3, 2016, 11:12 PM
drdevilfx drdevilfx is online now
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Nothing is known about Nakayama and Studio Who. Many of us have searched, but nothing can be found. It's possibly some very small Japanese company.

Also, wasn't OPUS credited due to Nagao joining it immediately after the game? I recall reading he put the company's name on the credits in preparation for joining.

@dissident93 I believe Hydrocity's a Maeda track, due to its similarities with Rusty Ruin and Diamond Dust. To be honest though, the Meada sound is still not as strong in this track when compared to his works in GAIII, JLPS2 and S3D, so I still have my doubts.
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  #44  
Old Feb 4, 2016, 12:13 AM
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Nothing is really known about Nimiya's involvement, but if I'm remember right, somebody tried to contact him regarding Sonic 3 before. I don't recall him responding though.

I also wasn't aware of the Nagao/Opus connection (or maybe I forgot).
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  #45  
Old Jul 5, 2016, 11:18 PM
SarahJames SarahJames is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHeart View Post
Angel Island? Well the Sonic 10th anniversary cd credits Tomonori Sawada and Yoshiaki Kashima

Special Stage? The one with Blue/Red spheres? Yoshiaki Kashima definitely did that one for this 3 phen375 program. Said it in some e-mail back in 2001. And Hydrocity was by MJ, Brad Buxer, and Cirocco Jones. while the act 2 arrangement was done by Masayuki Nagao.

I wonder if MJ actually did have any input or if he was just around at the studio so they included him as a producer to get the name value and some press.

And yeah, I'm sure MJ probably played a lot of SEGA back in the day.
MJ played Sega because my passed uncle actually worked with Sega and I remember him actually saying somethin, just been years since i remembered rip uncle tom he always had great advice
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  #46  
Old Nov 19, 2019, 08:43 AM
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Despatche Despatche is offline
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Okay, this needs to be bumped. Let's just make this a general "who composed Sonic 3?" topic.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...el8PBU2hxgdd7n

A proto of Sonic 3 has surfaced. Turns out the "new" music for Sonic & Knuckles Collection was actually the original stuff (though the PC versions of the songs are arranged somewhat). This also includes the "new" midboss theme that appears in Sonic & Knuckles; that's in here too. This seems to confirm that there was some kind of issue with having "the MJ music" (I'm aware of Hard Times) at some point after Sonic 3, and that "the MJ music" was brought in later.

Last edited by Despatche; Nov 19, 2019 at 08:48 AM.
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