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  #61  
Old Jun 1, 2015, 02:52 PM
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I don't like THEMEX.
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  #62  
Old Jun 1, 2015, 03:57 PM
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I like how much people say that this is "The best soundtrack of 2015 for sure, until 31 of December."...
Opinions or not...(as no one respect my opinion and starts taking trash on me) their taste is a bit sour isn't it?
This is as annoying as any other crap Sawano "supposedly" composes. And those freaking trolling on track names.....
I just can't like Sawano music. I can't... I tried? I forced myself into it.. No... he is not good as everyone says. I only conclude that so much fanboys comes from this new generation who never actually listen REAL GOOD composed music.
I can almost consider Sawano as the "Lady Gaga" of japanese soundtrack music. It's lame, it's not original, tries hard to be something that is not, and thinks is delivering good music... oh, and easy-to-listen radio music.
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  #63  
Old Jun 1, 2015, 05:08 PM
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You know what's even more annoying? People constantly using ellipses in their postings for no reason at all.
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  #64  
Old Jun 1, 2015, 06:59 PM
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Haha there's so much annoying shit in life. Number 1 annoying is gotta be Sawano with ellipses.

I personally don't have a problem with track names. My reaction to it stayed the same over time - it's just a thing that makes them unusual.
Sawano as Lady Gaga. Ok. I can get behind that description. The good thing is you making your explanation more graphic to illustrate a point.

What I don't like is when someone says they don't like some sort of music; you ask them why... And they become mute. Basically unable to describe what they like or dislike.
Anyone can say "like" or "don't like" but when it comes to opinions, I'm more interested in "why".
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  #65  
Old Jun 1, 2015, 07:17 PM
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You know what's even more annoying? People constantly using ellipses in their postings for no reason at all.
You really wouldn't like Xenogears.
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  #66  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 03:51 AM
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You really wouldn't like Xenogears.
Quoting from a very old thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jormungand View Post
And then when you're done with those, go read Perfect Works, then replay Xenogears. Because as much as I love the stories of all of the above, XG is still the best.

Last edited by LiquidAcid; Jun 2, 2015 at 07:24 AM.
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  #67  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 04:31 AM
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You know what's even more annoying? People constantly using ellipses in their postings for no reason at all.
Well that's a "matter of opinion".

I picked up The Fame and surprisingly enjoy it, though Gaga's stuff is more interesting when spliced with other bands. "OV Fire and Bad Romance" worked for Behemoth too since they haven't put out a good album since becoming a bad Nile cover band. But... wrong forum.

Speaking of splicing though... Jormungand, you're likely to play Chronicles X before me. What are the chances you'd be willing to create a playlist of the perfect Mitsuda tunes to swap out for Sawano's- just in case I think it's terrible? Maybe throw in some Shimomura for good measure, too. Folks like Rew and myself can B.Y.O.ACE+. It can be the OST it should've been all along!

Which... gives me an idea for a thread...
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  #68  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 04:35 AM
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LiquidAcid: Eh, it was more like ellipses is so over-used in the dialogue in Xenogears it's almost a running joke among those familiar with the game--I wasn't really commenting on the story or the game as a whole.
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  #69  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 04:50 AM
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Well that's a "matter of opinion".
No, it's a matter of using proper interpunctuation.
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  #70  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 05:09 AM
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As much as I can see why some would like Sawano's style, because he definitely produced some interesting works in the past, this soundtrack is pretty contemptible in my own opinion, and mostly for one reason: it sounds so pretentious, when it is actually so shallow. It's too epic for its own good, and falsely epic at that.

Disc 1 especially has this series of typical Sawano tracks: quiet, kinda boring start, that suddenly bursts into a loud BOOMBOOM-ish electronic rhythm with some high-pitched strings or choir to make it sound more noble (I suppose?). But when it's just that, it's just not original or interesting anymore.

I like two tracks a lot: "Z 15 Field" and "Yako Mori". The first one especially has a very delicate feel, with the quiet vocals and ethereal instruments. The second one does have an over-the-top sung part, but not awkward like most others, and the melody itself is catchy and the flute adds some lightness (I usually love the flute+beats combo). And then what a lovely second part. Both are well done, not too bombastic, and seem to fit the context of the game.

But that's it. I'm not planning to play XenobladeX, yet I've watched a number of videos (because the landscapes look gorgeous), and I feel the music is out of context most of the time (not so surprised to hear it was composed 3 years ago now heh!).

I feel sorry to use that word but, for instance, I think "NLA shigai" is pathetic. What a lame attempt at making a cool sounding tune, that is actually just incoherent and so hollow... and it completely fails to convey the feeling of a modern/futuristic city set on an alien planet. How can this be the city music?! It just sounds like some mediocre rock band rehearsing for their local gig.

In the end, it's one of these rare cases where I feel Sawano stole another composer's (or other composers') chance to make a really good soundtrack.
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  #71  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 06:10 AM
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don't remember if it has been said in the forums and too lazy to check all posts
but I was wondering if those tracks were really intended to be used directly in xenoblade x or if it's not "old" tracks which coulda been used in any other anime/game/etc stuff and sawano just dug into his collection (don't think it fits a xenoverse)

(personally, I listened again and again the ost, and I don't like it at all
--same shit as aldnoah, 7sins or msgu and I won't waste my time with seraph)
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  #72  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 07:30 AM
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I would be cautious with the Seraph statement Phono, since it's not just Sawano doing the music. And sometimes the synergy/collaboration effect when just the right people are working together can have an tremendous influence on the work (e.g. for me this applies to a lot of Gust works).

However I have to say for myself that my rule of thumb is to just avoid all anime (and now also video game) works by Sawano. I still follow his works for television drama though, and my impression is that he's putting a lot for effort into those. Whereas for anime works he's constantly on auto-pilot, never leaving what's either his comfort zone or what the producer wants him to do (?).
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  #73  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Phonograph View Post
don't remember if it has been said in the forums and too lazy to check all posts
but I was wondering if those tracks were really intended to be used directly in xenoblade x or if it's not "old" tracks which coulda been used in any other anime/game/etc stuff and sawano just dug into his collection (don't think it fits a xenoverse)

(personally, I listened again and again the ost, and I don't like it at all
--same shit as aldnoah, 7sins or msgu and I won't waste my time with seraph)
One of the vocal tracks on this soundtrack comes directly from his 2009 original album so it wouldn't surprise me if he had other tracks not specifically made for Xeno.
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  #74  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LiquidAcid View Post
I would be cautious with the Seraph statement Phono, since it's not just Sawano doing the music. And sometimes the synergy/collaboration effect when just the right people are working together can have an tremendous influence on the work (e.g. for me this applies to a lot of Gust works).

...
as with sakuraba and shiina on tales of zestiria, pardon me but no definitely no ;p
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  #75  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 08:36 AM
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I personally see Sawano and his use of modern, erm, sound FXs as in line with other arguably modern composers like Takeharu Ishimoto, Shoji Meguro and lately Masaru Shiina whenever he gets out of the orchestral mode. The style is clearly contemporary and as such enjoys popularity, can be interesting (synth-)technically but usually doesn't speak to me musically.
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  #76  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 09:25 AM
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I still follow his works for television drama though, and my impression is that he's putting a lot for effort into those.
That's a rather interesting info but I guess I don't have the energy to deal with this guy's music anymore.
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  #77  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 11:10 AM
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It was actually the TV drama "Maou" (i think it was a tv drama) that got my attention to him. It was "my first time", and I was curious... till I hated Gundam Unicorn to the CORE. Yes, I hate that soundtrack! I would buy all copies just throw them at fire and film it and send it by e-mail to Sawano. Yes, that is how much that soundtrack messed up my brain.
Then I went to Sengoku Basara TV anime 2, which was interesting, so I gave him shot... and then I saw the american movies in which he used theme cues for the soundtrack of Sengoku Basara. Like.. Ultraviolet main theme being "This is a fight to change the world."
It does not matter how much you painted and how much you defend it... That is a problem. Go compare both.
Keep telling me that Sawano is a great musician and composer, and that proofs like that, utterly "in your face" says otherwise.
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  #78  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by waxattax View Post
Speaking of splicing though... Jormungand, you're likely to play Chronicles X before me. What are the chances you'd be willing to create a playlist of the perfect Mitsuda tunes to swap out for Sawano's- just in case I think it's terrible? Maybe throw in some Shimomura for good measure, too. Folks like Rew and myself can B.Y.O.ACE+. It can be the OST it should've been all along!
I'd have done the same thing myself, if it weren't for XBX's inability to mute the SFX and music separately. I've never been this excited for a game since I was a kid, but I can't say all its elements appeal to me. I was actually going to swap in the Lightning Returns soundtrack, but that plan was tragically scrapped.

A Mitsuda playlist would be easy--and fun. I love doing that kind of stuff.
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  #79  
Old Jun 2, 2015, 08:52 PM
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I wouldn't say the XBCX score is quite in the same league as the original, but it still does have some tracks that are really awesome. Aside from "MONOX" and "The key we've lost", I was quite pleased with the piano tracks on Disc 4 and several of the area pieces (Sylvalum is particularly pretty). That said, I may need to play the game in order to decide how well it suits this game.

It sounds like this soundtrack is a more love it or hate it kind of soundtrack. But as someone unfamiliar with Hiroyuki Sawano's style, it's always nice to have a newcomer to the game music world. That said, I DO find the "rap" portions of two tracks "Black Tar" and "Melancholia" very off-putting and out of place, the former in particular sounds quite cheesy and goofy while the other is distracting. Minor gripes from me, though, I find this to be an interesting if not altogether successful change of pace. I don't think it achieves the instant classic status of its predecessor, but it's certainly an interesting package all the same.
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  #80  
Old Jun 3, 2015, 05:30 AM
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LiquidAcid: I was refering to your choice to be annoyed.

But really it was meant as a good natured jibe. Maybe I should start using emoticons. When I use ellipses it's to indicate an implied extra meaning when I can't use my voice, facial expressions or body language to do so. My indication here was that I was annoyed by you pointing out your annoyance and using what annoyed you to do so. As such I imagined a cycle beginning that would only end when one or both of us decided to no longer be annoyed by the other. It was a commentary on human behavior, how little free will we allow ourselves and then how we complain about it as if it's someone else's fault. And so the cycle perpetuates itself. I thought with a name like LiquidAcid you'd be of a mind to appreciate it. But hey- it wasn't meant in seriousness. Not much I say is. Complaining is a luxury. I do my share, but I'm at once laughing at myself for thinking someone owes me something.

Speaking of which: Check this out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nextday View Post
One of the vocal tracks on this soundtrack comes directly from his 2009 original album so it wouldn't surprise me if he had other tracks not specifically made for Xeno.
I like to think of myself as slow to anger, but now we're getting used songs not even intended for the game?! Who the hell does this Sawano think he is?!?!
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  #81  
Old Jun 3, 2015, 07:23 AM
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@waxattax: I was merely critizing in my trademark sarcastic way the fact that some people are not putting any effort into expressing their thoughs here (or on the net in general).

Since you brought up the topic of appreciation: I can appreciate postings like the one by Zanasea. It's carefully written, uses proper interpunctuation so that I know where a sentence begins and where it ends, and it's structured into paragraphs making it easy to follow different train of thoughts.

I cannot appreciate something like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanticScent View Post
I like how much people say that this is "The best soundtrack of 2015 for sure, until 31 of December."...
Opinions or not...(as no one respect my opinion and starts taking trash on me) their taste is a bit sour isn't it?
This is as annoying as any other crap Sawano "supposedly" composes. And those freaking trolling on track names.....
I just can't like Sawano music. I can't... I tried? I forced myself into it.. No... he is not good as everyone says. I only conclude that so much fanboys comes from this new generation who never actually listen REAL GOOD composed music.
I can almost consider Sawano as the "Lady Gaga" of japanese soundtrack music. It's lame, it's not original, tries hard to be something that is not, and thinks is delivering good music... oh, and easy-to-listen radio music.
Some keywords that come to my mind: rant, incoherent, unstructured, capitalization, ellipsitis

If I encounter something like this I ignore it. Why should I make the effort to read it when the author made no effort writing it?

I hope you didn't seriously think that this would annoy me. It takes a lot more than that to get me to this point. I feel about it the same way I feel about this OST: indifferent

What I'm not so indifferent about is the thought that was already expressed here earlier in the thread, namely that this is a missed chance for another composer. In other words, we might've gotten something much better here if production staff had decided differently. However this is all hypothetical and as such discussing other potential 'outcomes' is (even if the discussion itself might be interesting, see your branched off thread) a moot point.

As for me, I probably won't play the game at all. I had a lot of fun with Xenoblade and put around 195hrs into the game together with a friend (I took us around a year to finish it, since we met only once a week). But the more I read and see about X the less I want to play it. It looks too MMORPG-ized for my taste and while I can understand that design decision (and also the fact that it potentially pulls in a larger userbase) it just doesn't resonate with me. I rather go back to the older titles and replay e.g. Xenogears. As much as I like the series I get the impression that it's going the same way as other classic series (think Silent Hill or Resident Evil), down the drain. I hope I get proven wrong in the future.

My decision would likely be the opposite with a different soundtrack ("Good music can make even a mediocre game become enjoyable.").


Also, you should not read too much into nicknames. I have that alias as long as I can remember and its origin was a comical situation in chemistry class back in middle school.
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  #82  
Old Jun 4, 2015, 05:33 AM
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@LiquidAcid
I appreciate your response. I'll jokingly say that had you written annoying within ellipses I would have gotten it.

I agree the King's English is suffering and the Internet can take a big share of the blame for it. RomanticScent's first language doesn't seem to be English, though. Zanasea, on the other hand- yeah, I agree. Well done.

I reallyhave no idea what actually annoys you. I simply didn't like where I thought things were going so I attempted to draw attention away from RS (whose outright disgust I found hilarious) unto myself in order to then diffuse the situation.

I did something similar in another recent thread we both appeared on. In my mind the "YOU MAD BRO?" picture was posted to further antagonize someone already unable to determine friend from foe. People like that have enough going on already. It may be a fool's errand me attempting to police such a thing and very likely none of my business, but I especially don't want to see it here on VGMdb.net. It was a situation that seemed best ignored, though perhaps I was mistaken for not considering such advice applied to myself.

I won't dredge up the Kingdom Hearts ReMIX BOX Discuss thread all over again, but... It was your representation of Shota, seeing him using regressive English, that gave me my first impression of you. It was derogatory, even more so now knowing how you feel about such misuse. I'll just say I'm grateful for Ramza's opposing depiction.

I suppose the only thing left for me to say is that next time you ignore someone vocally I understand that's just you being you. Please be aware anytime this might happen again I may end up just being me, too.

I'd also like to specify that I neither condone nor partake of certain devices- I haven't tilted one back in over seven years- not even a drop, though the recent "itch" tells me the bottle remembers my name- so to come to such a conclusion regarding your moniker I may have grown up on a "different side of the tracks" than some.

Either way, I had a few more questions regarding the Takahashi/Sawano relationship and a Thank You for Jormangund, but I'll have to do that tomorrow.

Thanks.
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  #83  
Old Jun 4, 2015, 06:05 AM
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(the next liquidacid annoyance could be the use of - ;p)
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  #84  
Old Jun 4, 2015, 11:28 PM
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Kids, just say "No" to LiquidAcid.
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  #85  
Old Jun 5, 2015, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Zanasea View Post
In the end, it's one of these rare cases where I feel Sawano stole another composer's (or other composers') chance to make a really good soundtrack.
Did you mean a rare case of one composer literally stealing a job from (an)other composer(s), or a rare case of you feeling so strongly it seems like we were robbed?

Just always curious about what goes on behind the scenes during game development. Most of the stories I've read make a surprising amount of it seem like dumb luck. Small wonder we don't have more terrible games out there. At least on VGMdb it sounds as though the soundtrack is the weak link in XCX and here's the kind of the picture I'm getting as to why:

"Hiroyuki Sawano? Tetsuya Takahashi from Monolith Soft. Hi! I'm a big fan of yours and don't think music is an important part of the gameplay experience. Would you be available to write a few songs for a new title we're working on?"
"Well, I've never done a game soundtrack before and I'm pretty busy with other on-going projects. How about I do the whole thing?"
"That sounds like a great idea! Much better than working with ACE+ again. Those guys are the worst. Did I mention I don't think music is important to the gameplay experience? And hey, I... got a couple tickets to see Lady Gaga... ...Wanna go with me..?"

Do we know what actually happened?

@Jormungand: Yeah! Glad to hear making a Mitsuda playlist would be both easy and fun for you. Feel free to put this project as well as your other two custom OSTs up on the Alternate OSTs thread. Thanks!
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  #86  
Old Jun 5, 2015, 04:38 AM
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Sawano must be doing something right to get this amount of discussion about his score. Perhaps I should even move the album on my playlist queue higher so I could check if it's any good.
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Old Jun 6, 2015, 02:15 AM
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Did you mean a rare case of one composer literally stealing a job from (an)other composer(s), or a rare case of you feeling so strongly it seems like we were robbed?
Hmm, I thought my original message was clear enough, but yeah, this is the first option. And I only mean "stealing the job" because I have a strong feeling that some other game music composers could have made something a lot more refined and interesting, and above all, not totally out of context (clearly Sawano has just placed his usual style over a game without much effort). Of course we are all thinking about Mitsuda but there are other possibilities.

This is a feeling I have with the Bravely Second soundtrack as well. (Almost) any in-house Square Enix composer could have done something a lot better than ryo. Not to mention Revo of course.
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  #88  
Old Jun 6, 2015, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Zanasea View Post
clearly Sawano has just placed his usual style over a game without much effort
Statements like this one I find really disingenuous. In the end it was still Takahashi wanting Sawano in the game because he likes his music so much, not Sawano crashing in and forcing his style over everything. We can in many cases argue about people in development having too little an idea about music and many games lacking decent music direction, but laying the blame solely on the composer as a result is way too easy.
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  #89  
Old Jun 6, 2015, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Zanasea View Post
Hmm, I thought my original message was clear enough, but yeah, this is the first option. And I only mean "stealing the job" because I have a strong feeling that some other game music composers could have made something a lot more refined and interesting, and above all, not totally out of context (clearly Sawano has just placed his usual style over a game without much effort).

This is a feeling I have with the Bravely Second soundtrack as well. (Almost) any in-house Square Enix composer could have done something a lot better than ryo. Not to mention Revo of course.
Ah, yes. If I read the rules on one side of the page, turning the page over reveales the opposite to be true. Based upon the, "...[Takahashi] was going to ask [Sawano] from the beginning to do at least some of the music..." from Jormungand's first post on this thread- and not knowing when or how that had changed to full compositional duties, I saw a few ways to interpret your post. I appreciate the clarification as well as your patience.

After all, it is a moot point as LiquidAcid stated. I'm simply quite interested in the details as to how a thing like this happens- if for no other reason than to feel safe in the belief that I could -possibly- do something to prevent it or, in the least, avoid letting my hopes get so high beforehand. Normally for any new title I am cautiously optimistic at best. Yet I wanted nothing more than to be like a kid at Christmas for the follow-up to Xenoblade.

Whether Sawano literally shouldered his way in or not, general consensus is he just wasn't ready, possibly able, for what he found himself up against. I still cannot say if he ever realized it, either. I also am uncertain that if Takahashi had recognized he picked the wrong man for the job, would he have done anything about it (citing both his regard for Sawano and inexperience with the importance of music within a game)?

Your mentioning of the Bravely Second OST is timely as it seems that was another great disappointment. Both series' previous outings contained some of my favorite modern game music of recent memory. I would have run out to buy each the XCX and BS (heh) OSTs without question only to be sorely disappointed had I not checked our site first. As it stands, at least my expectations will be realistically grounded going in.

Still, something else I'm ignorant of is how much perceiving of mistakes, let alone learning from, certain dev teams are capable of. If in fact nothing is learned from this by Takahashi and history is doomed to repeat itself with future incarnations of Xeno, etc. I swear I'm leaving the frighteningly unpredictable future behind and going exclusively retro. There is plenty that I didn't have time for first round and the music is some of the best.
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Old Jun 6, 2015, 05:03 AM
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waxattax waxattax is offline
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Originally Posted by Datschge View Post
In the end it was still Takahashi wanting Sawano in the game because he likes his music so much, not Sawano crashing in and forcing his style over everything. We can in many cases argue about people in development having too little an idea about music and many games lacking decent music direction, but laying the blame solely on the composer as a result is way too easy.
So Sawano did not "crash" in?
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