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  #1  
Old Sep 29, 2021, 06:52 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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Am I the only one who loves the cover of this thing? Really reminds me when Data sets the kitchen on fire at the beginning of the game.

"I was just trying to cook a pizza!"

Edit:

"Icefield" better be the track I'm thinking it is.

I wonder which version of "Nino Ruins" is on here: flooded or non-flooded. Shame it doesn't look they won't have both. I get the tracks are just variations, but solid tracks nonetheless.

Last edited by Brad Evans II; Sep 29, 2021 at 06:55 PM.
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  #2  
Old Oct 2, 2021, 05:02 PM
Damned Damned is offline
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If Mega Man Legends Station is any indication, then this release is missing roughly 50% of the soundtrack, including my two favorite songs (Glyde / Bonne Train Boss Battle).

Ah well, just gotta wait for the inevitable Legends Sound Box
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  #3  
Old Oct 2, 2021, 06:32 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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Originally Posted by Damned View Post
If Mega Man Legends Station is any indication, then this release is missing roughly 50% of the soundtrack, including my two favorite songs (Glyde / Bonne Train Boss Battle).

Ah well, just gotta wait for the inevitable Legends Sound Box
Yeah, we're getting about half here I think. There's about 70 or 80 pieces in the game. That said, if these LPs are popular, maybe this will move Capcom's foot on a Legends box. If that ever comes to light, I WILL be buying it.

I think the music of these games is overlooked, but for those thinking these are weird choices to put on vinyl, I can't really argue with you.

I kind of hope they do a part 2 to the Legends 1 LP; actually many good tracks that didn't make it onto the original OST back in 1998.
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  #4  
Old Apr 8, 2022, 06:40 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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Got an e-mail; the blue with white splatter LPs are currently shipping.
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  #5  
Old Apr 13, 2022, 01:36 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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Just a quick note about the LPs. It appears the tracks aren't in order of when they appear in the game. For example, all the tracks on side A don't play near the beginning of the game, but they all play in the cold/frozen section of the world map.

It looks like they've tried to group the tracks together on each vinyl based on the "island" they play on. It's not a bad idea and barely distracts if at all. It's basically set up like this:

Side A: Cold Island
Side B: Grassland Island
Side C: Water Island / Desert Island
Side D: Endgame Areas
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  #6  
Old Apr 13, 2022, 04:46 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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"Icefield" better be the track I'm thinking it is.
The track I was looking for was "Calinca Ruins," so it's on here; "Icefield" is the main theme used for the snowy fields on Forbidden Island.
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  #7  
Old May 15, 2022, 05:11 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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This is going to sound kind of silly, but having about half this score on media has somewhat changed my mind about some things.

In the past I've always said I understood why the music of Legends 2 was never given a soundtrack release. Many of the tracks are just variations of one another - this approach took hold in the Misadventures of Tron Bonne and was carried over the second Legends title - thus I thought it wouldn't make for a great listening experience even though I thought Tomozawa's work was underrated.

However, after listening to this quite a bit I think I was wrong. This score is much more viable as an "experience" than I imagined. I'm surprised it works as well as it does outside the game in my case, but that may be due to the fact I've played the game before.
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  #8  
Old May 23, 2022, 05:23 PM
jmr jmr is offline
 
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I did uncredited work on this release. Capcom originally only provided the songs which were previously released on the Special Selection CD, so STS commissioned me to get whatever I could out of the game. About 50% of the music was recorded from a modified copy of the game which muted all of the streaming audio (voice acting) in addition to all of the sound effects which were muted using the in game options menu. The rest of the songs were sourced from squaresoft74’s PSF rip - he was aware his rips were being used for an official release - I was in touch with him early on when I was first approached to work on this.
His rips were made public through the usual channels when I was about halfway through recording. I hoped both of us would have been credited on the final release but whatever. Just know that this release probably wouldn’t have been possible without his help.
Every song was recorded from an SPDIF-modified PlayStation, with the one exception being the ending credits music which is a direct conversion of the audio file found in the game data.

I recorded everything that could be isolated - basically the entirety of what’s on the legends station download including the DASH2 demo tracks, as well as everything squaresoft74 covered in his PSF rip. Unfortunately that doesn’t include the backing music from most cutscenes, as those were impossible for me to isolate in a way they’d be good enough for an official release.
I can’t remember the full extent of it but the end result was something like 88 tracks, almost 2.5 hrs once everything was cut and faded to two loops.
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  #9  
Old May 24, 2022, 12:52 AM
zierts zierts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr View Post
I did uncredited work on this release. Capcom originally only provided the songs which were previously released on the Special Selection CD, so STS commissioned me to get whatever I could out of the game. About 50% of the music was recorded from a modified copy of the game which muted all of the streaming audio (voice acting) in addition to all of the sound effects which were muted using the in game options menu. The rest of the songs were sourced from squaresoft74’s PSF rip - he was aware his rips were being used for an official release - I was in touch with him early on when I was first approached to work on this.
His rips were made public through the usual channels when I was about halfway through recording. I hoped both of us would have been credited on the final release but whatever. Just know that this release probably wouldn’t have been possible without his help.
Every song was recorded from an SPDIF-modified PlayStation, with the one exception being the ending credits music which is a direct conversion of the audio file found in the game data.

I recorded everything that could be isolated - basically the entirety of what’s on the legends station download including the DASH2 demo tracks, as well as everything squaresoft74 covered in his PSF rip. Unfortunately that doesn’t include the backing music from most cutscenes, as those were impossible for me to isolate in a way they’d be good enough for an official release.
I can’t remember the full extent of it but the end result was something like 88 tracks, almost 2.5 hrs once everything was cut and faded to two loops.
Ladies and gentlemen, the state of video game preservation in 2022. Where companies have to leave the work to passionate individuals.

So that would make you and squaresoft74 recording engineers?

I'm not familiar with the game. Could you pinpoint the tracks where you needed to convert from the PSF set or is that beyond what you're allowed to divulge?

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Originally Posted by Brad Evans II View Post
However, after listening to this quite a bit I think I was wrong. This score is much more viable as an "experience" than I imagined. I'm surprised it works as well as it does outside the game in my case, but that may be due to the fact I've played the game before.
I noticed this trait in some of Capcom's soundtracks. I could listen to Street Fighter II music all day long although I've never been particularly invested in the game.
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  #10  
Old May 24, 2022, 07:17 AM
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rpbtz rpbtz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr View Post
I can’t remember the full extent of it but the end result was something like 88 tracks, almost 2.5 hrs once everything was cut and faded to two loops.
I'll be looking forward to the Vol. 2 release then :P
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  #11  
Old May 24, 2022, 07:31 AM
jmr jmr is offline
 
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Originally Posted by zierts View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, the state of video game preservation in 2022. Where companies have to leave the work to passionate individuals.
In my limited experience, us "passionate individuals" probably care more about doing things well and doing things right anyway. A few of my gigs so far have been for cases where existing recordings were available that would have been "good enough" for the average release, but where I felt I could do better either in terms of completeness or sound quality.

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So that would make you and squaresoft74 recording engineers?
I've been credited as "Audio Engineer" on the other albums I've done this sort of work for, so that seems appropriate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zierts View Post
I'm not familiar with the game. Could you pinpoint the tracks where you needed to convert from the PSF set or is that beyond what you're allowed to divulge?
I'd have to go back and check if I still have my notes on which ones were sourced from the PSF files. I probably don't - it was all jotted down on paper. I did all of this over a year ago over a period of a few months.

Just a clarification though - none of the tracks are "converted" (except for the credits music like I mentioned earlier) - all tracks including those using Squaresoft74's PSF's were still recorded from actual Playstation hardware. They just weren't recorded directly from a copy of the game.
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  #12  
Old May 24, 2022, 05:13 PM
ShinHarmony ShinHarmony is offline
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Thank you so much for your posts, jmr.

I've often wondered if unofficial gamerips have been used for official releases, if the game company or rights holder knows, if the original ripper knows, etc.

When there is a new release of retro music, you sometimes see a text like "recorded from original hardware". That's what often makes me wonder if someone really played through the entire game recording the audio while avoiding sound effects, if they created their own gamerip and recorded that, or if they used someone elses gamerip.

There's so much behind-the-scenes stuff that I'd love to know more about. Your posts, jmr, were a glimpse into that, so thank you again.
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  #13  
Old May 25, 2022, 04:15 AM
zierts zierts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr View Post
In my limited experience, us "passionate individuals" probably care more about doing things well and doing things right anyway. A few of my gigs so far have been for cases where existing recordings were available that would have been "good enough" for the average release, but where I felt I could do better either in terms of completeness or sound quality.

I've been credited as "Audio Engineer" on the other albums I've done this sort of work for, so that seems appropriate.


I'd have to go back and check if I still have my notes on which ones were sourced from the PSF files. I probably don't - it was all jotted down on paper. I did all of this over a year ago over a period of a few months.

Just a clarification though - none of the tracks are "converted" (except for the credits music like I mentioned earlier) - all tracks including those using Squaresoft74's PSF's were still recorded from actual Playstation hardware. They just weren't recorded directly from a copy of the game.
Sounds like you went the extra mile to get those tracks right. Though I'll admit I've never tried the process to see if the files played back on original hardware sound any different from in-game playback (guess the difference would be negligible unless someone told you what to look for). Thanks for the clarification!
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  #14  
Old May 25, 2022, 09:22 AM
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Jedi QuestMaster Jedi QuestMaster is offline
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Originally Posted by zierts View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, the state of video game preservation in 2022. Where companies have to leave the work to passionate individuals.
I'd rather companies do this than completely overlook a bunch of crap thinking they can do it themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zierts View Post
Sounds like you went the extra mile to get those tracks right. Though I'll admit I've never tried the process to see if the files played back on original hardware sound any different from in-game playback (guess the difference would be negligible unless someone told you what to look for). Thanks for the clarification!
With gamerips, you really have to be paranoid not to overlook missing samples, missing tracks, or incorrect speeds.

For example, the Battletoads vinyls are missing this excellent DPCM (I didn't even realize this until someone pointed it out):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGT0FM3yh-w

Likewise, if someone were to tackle Virtual Pro Wrestling / WCW Vs. NWO, and used a gamerip, it's possible that this guitar sample would get cut:

Full:
https://youtu.be/-aePM2DPnws?t=155

Cut:
https://youtu.be/LBuZcWkiPh8?t=155
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  #15  
Old May 27, 2022, 10:51 AM
zierts zierts is offline
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From my experience USF rips are rather finicky and more prone to having samples missing/being played back at the wrong speed whereas PSFs are more likely to be close to the real deal for non-dynamic music. As your post already implied, it's different from hardware to hardware and from game to game.

I'm not opposed to using emulation/rips for recordings on principle, but they have to be "indistinguishable" from an in-game recording and some work has to go into them afterwards to make them worth their price lest you want people to simply grab the rip instead. If it helps keep you within budgetary and time constraints and you can make it sound right, then go for it. Best-case scenario, you're as transparent about it as jmr was here, which certainly earned him my respect (and of course, jmr made it clear that it wasn't as easy as converting the PSF set on a computer).

Who knows how often we're sold plain ripped (hence actually lazy) stuff with minimal changes and we never find out about it? The funniest scenario of course is when game companies themselves resort to stuff downloaded on the net. I'm sure it happens more often than we're aware of it. And you can't really fault them for doing it as those offering them infringed their rights before. It's just embarrassing when the public finds out out. This will remain the most high-profile instance of this for a long time, except the jury's still out on that one and it can never be proven or disproven (it's come to light that someone involved in the development of iNES emulator sound support was later hired by Nintendo and worked on their in-house emulators, but that still doesn't explain why he would use iNES headers for ROMs Nintendo dumped themselves if they did not download them).
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  #16  
Old May 27, 2022, 06:39 PM
ShinHarmony ShinHarmony is offline
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Originally Posted by zierts View Post
I'm not opposed to using emulation/rips for recordings on principle, but they have to be "indistinguishable" from an in-game recording and some work has to go into them afterwards to make them worth their price lest you want people to simply grab the rip instead.
When you say that "some work has to go into them afterwards", what do you mean? Do you mean mastering (e.g. applying EQ) to make the music sound better?

If that's the case, I actually prefer not having any kind of mastering or enhancements made to the sound. I want it to sound exactly as the original music in the game. But I guess I could be convinced otherwise if someone makes a good argument, or if a particular soundtrack has a slightly-bad-but-fixable sound.
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  #17  
Old May 28, 2022, 04:02 AM
zierts zierts is offline
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First the inevitable clean-up such as removing invasive clicks. Then some mastering to make the music shine on a variety of playback devices. To release it from the shackles of the hardware so to speak. Not just drowning it under a heap of reverb, or tinkering with the EQ for the sake of it.

I used to like soundtrack releases sound as close to the in-game music as possible. But that's not necessarily the best way to listen to it in isolation. In-game music may sound a bit anemic to make the rest of the game's soundscape more audible, or on the contrary may have been adjusted to be able to compete with sound effects and voice acting. When you remove that from the equation and have listening pleasure as the sole goal, adjustments to the music can enhance the experience further. If I want the in-game music, I can always resort to listening to a rip. But your mileage may vary. To each their own.
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  #18  
Old May 29, 2022, 12:24 AM
ShinHarmony ShinHarmony is offline
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You made some really good points there, zierts. The more I read them, the more I feel convinced by your arguments.

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In-game music may sound a bit anemic to make the rest of the game's soundscape more audible, or on the contrary may have been adjusted to be able to compete with sound effects and voice acting.
Actually I've never thought about this, but it does make sense, when you say it like that. I can imagine what you described happening when the developers think about the overall audio experience. Perhaps adjusting the music's sound is preferable after all.

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Originally Posted by zierts View Post
If I want the in-game music, I can always resort to listening to a rip.
Lately I have only been listening to music I bought (or youtube), so that might be one reason I'm wishing for albums to be as close to in-game music as possible. Don't know if I'll start listening to rips again. But either way, your arguments were informative, so thank you.
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  #19  
Old May 29, 2022, 12:46 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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Wow. Haven't checked back to this thread in a while. That exploded, lol.
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  #20  
Old Jun 13, 2022, 08:09 AM
jmr jmr is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zierts View Post
I used to like soundtrack releases sound as close to the in-game music as possible. But that's not necessarily the best way to listen to it in isolation. In-game music may sound a bit anemic to make the rest of the game's soundscape more audible, or on the contrary may have been adjusted to be able to compete with sound effects and voice acting. When you remove that from the equation and have listening pleasure as the sole goal, adjustments to the music can enhance the experience further. If I want the in-game music, I can always resort to listening to a rip. But your mileage may vary. To each their own.
I'm working on a project now (can't say what!) but putting the audio exactly as-is in game on the album would result in such an uncomfortable listening experience simply due to the vast difference between the audio levels in cutscene / menu music (etc) and level music.

I'm also dealing with a case where the original in-game audio is severely hindered by a limitation of the hardware, but significant improvements are possible (and easy). My usual goal with "classic" hardware is to present the music as close as possible to what the original game would sound, but isolate and remove any extra noise, distortion, interference etc that would be present on typical hardware... but in this case I'm strongly considering making a more invasive change to the soundtrack to bypass one individual hardware limitation simply because it makes for such a more enjoyable listening experience.

Last edited by jmr; Jun 13, 2022 at 08:11 AM.
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  #21  
Old Jun 28, 2022, 03:07 PM
zierts zierts is offline
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As for sound hardware, KMCA-162 is a good example. That ever-present hiss on the GBA hardware is something I can do without. Compare this to this. That's not to say the latter is perfect (far from it), but it gets the point across fairly well.
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  #22  
Old Jul 3, 2022, 11:52 AM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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About that album, I was kind of hoping they would have redone that work for the recent boxes (it be nice to get rid of the hiss AND have looping tracks) but I guess that was silly on my part.
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  #23  
Old Sep 17, 2023, 12:16 PM
Brad Evans II Brad Evans II is offline
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Was listening to this for some research I was doing and I noticed a few wonky things with the track listing:

"Calbania Plains 2" should not be called "Calbania Plains 2" - there is no second theme for the Calbania plains. This track is actually the theme for race minigame on Saul Kada Island:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXeA...qMV-M&index=60

A more accurate name would be "Kimotoma City ~ Race Game" and if the placement were correct, it should be on side C.

Also:

The track title for track 9 on side C is wrong on the site compared to what's on the back cover, but what's on the site is technically correct as what's on the back cover is actually wrong.

The fight with Tesiel's Blitzkreg (which is one of the best pieces of music in the game is you ask me) does NOT happen in the Kimotoma Caverns but in Kimotoma City. I can't believe I remember the game well enough to point out that mistake :P

Also, the track list might need to be double checked against the back scans again. For example, track 11 on side A is "Sulphur-Bottom (Guest Deck, Crew Deck)" on the site but the words "Crew Deck" don't appear on the back cover.

Man, I wish they'd make a Legends Collection already; I love these games. A Breath of Fire and 3D fighter collection (Star Gladiator/Rival Schools) would be swell as well. Come on, Capcom!
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