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  #1  
Old Jan 20, 2010, 05:27 PM
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Default Suggestion for limited editions and some digital releases

I would like to make a suggestion that could perhaps solve the duplicates issue of the limited editions and some digital releases. The main problem isn’t the fact that we have two similar albums in the database, since the reprints are also catalogued. The problem is the artist being credited twice for the exact same work.

I wondered if we could have a check box (like Feat.), indicating that the artist has been already credited in the similar album. Then, the link to the artist remain on the album, but this album wouldn’t appear in the artist’s discography, as it happens with reprints. The same thing for the iTunes releases, as Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, The Last Remnant and many others. However, this should not happen with "best of" collections releases because they are different, of course.

I don't know if that is possible to do or if it would be confusing. Maybe someone have a better idea, but this is my suggestion.

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old Jan 20, 2010, 06:32 PM
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I guess the question is whether it is a problem for an artist to have multiple albums in a discography credited from essentially the same work.

I think we see the same issue in a game like Tokimeki Memorial, where someone composes the theme song, and it's used on fifty albums.

I don't know that either of these cases is a problem; it depends how you want to use the discography.
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  #3  
Old Jan 20, 2010, 08:17 PM
Cedille Cedille is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoc View Post
I would like to make a suggestion that could perhaps solve the duplicates issue of the limited editions and some digital releases. The main problem isn’t the fact that we have two similar albums in the database, since the reprints are also catalogued. The problem is the artist being credited twice for the exact same work.
Thanks for raising this issue. I once went so far as not to linkify every artist to the other entry (see this), but this was a stopgap solution to say the least. I also think it's far from appropriate, since Limited editions get their own separate entries because of extra discs which the artists might have to be given credit for (it's still a matter of being featured in promotional videos or such, though...).

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Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
I don't know that either of these cases is a problem; it depends how you want to use the discography.
Personally, I feel it's a bit inconsistent, because we make child albums and bootlegs not appear in the discography pages. It's fine to credit artists to something exclusive to the Limited Editions, of course.
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  #4  
Old Jan 21, 2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
I guess the question is whether it is a problem for an artist to have multiple albums in a discography credited from essentially the same work.
Now I have a doubt on digital re-releases with extra tracks, such as Video Games Live and Blue Dragon, because it would be unfair to withdraw new tracks from the discography of artists.

But we can restrict this to the limited editions. I thought about using it for those types of albums that are re-released with the same title and with nearly the same original content, but because of an extra CD or DVD, can't be categorized as reprints.

The Final Fantasy XIII OST for example. If you look at the discography of Masashi Hamauzu, he takes an extra credit as a composer and arranger on the same track over the standard edition just because the first press edition has a CD drama. In other words, he didn’t compose two different soundtracks. If were not this CD drama, FFXIII OST could be added as a reprint, and this duplicate would not appear in the discography.

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Thanks for raising this issue. I once went so far as not to linkify every artist to the other entry (see this), but this was a stopgap solution to say the least. I also think it's far from appropriate, since Limited editions get their own separate entries because of extra discs which the artists might have to be given credit for (it's still a matter of being featured in promotional videos or such, though...).
In fact, I just thought about it when I read your note, but in a way that had links to the artists. Another solution I thought just now is to be an option to add a limited edition (as reprints) in their own albums, but in a way that you could handle the artists. Instead of a row of check boxes, there could be two, one for the standard edition and the other for limited edition. So it would be possible to determine exactly the credits artists of each issue. Maybe there could be one artist field shared with two albums (regular and limited edition).

In the case of FFXIII, for instance, Masashi Hamauzu would be credited in the two versions, and in his discography we would see only the regular release, because in his case is redundant the first press edition appears. Since the drama cast would be noted only in the first press edition, and this album would appear in the discography of the voice actors.

But I don't know if in this case could be a better solution...

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Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
Personally, I feel it's a bit inconsistent, because we make child albums and bootlegs not appear in the discography pages. It's fine to credit artists to something exclusive to the Limited Editions, of course.
However, if the bootlegs aren't added as reprints, the albums appears anyway in the discography. Take a look at the profile of Noriyuki Iwadare, for example.
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  #5  
Old Jan 21, 2010, 09:59 AM
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I don't think leaving an album unlinked is a good solution, because someone viewing that album page loses out by not having the clickable artist links.

Nice catch on the bootleg album. I thought those weren't displayed on Discographies at all. We should not display any bootlegs on our discography pages.

I'm still not convinced that the duplication on the discographies is a bad thing. Most LE editions include additional material on a 2nd disc anyway (granted, mostly videos of songs that are on the 1st disc). I'd even consider going the other way, and displaying the reprints.
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  #6  
Old Jan 21, 2010, 11:14 AM
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However, if the bootlegs aren't added as reprints, the albums appears anyway in the discography. Take a look at the profile of Noriyuki Iwadare, for example.
I didn't realize there could be a bootleg album that wasn't the child album of a legitimate release until now...

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Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
I'm still not convinced that the duplication on the discographies is a bad thing. Most LE editions include additional material on a 2nd disc anyway (granted, mostly videos of songs that are on the 1st disc).
I think if an artist still has credit for the additional material on the second disc, I have less problem with linking that artist to the album, but it's not always. In the case of FFXIII, Hamauzu's music will be used in the drama contents on the fifth disc, but I doubt all of Suzuki, Yamazaki, Nakano, Hirano, or miscellaneous performers (e.g. Aya, Saito and Sekito) are still there, but all of them will end up being credited for the LE edition.
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I'd even consider going the other way, and displaying the reprints.
I think this is the best solution in terms of consistency (if not so much for legibility or visibility...).


If the current 'feat' is supposed to seclude Doujin works from discographies, I wonder if we ought to have another function to seclude official reprises or such from the albums where artists have direct involvements in... just a random idea.
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Old Jan 21, 2010, 11:33 AM
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I guess this whole issue could be solved cleanly once there are per track credits. Such could be then extended with info if the track is the first of it kind (ideally tracked for composition and arrangement separately, so different arrangements don't raise credits for composition), and then those could be accumulated for credits statistics.
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  #8  
Old Jan 21, 2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
Nice catch on the bootleg album. I thought those weren't displayed on Discographies at all. We should not display any bootlegs on our discography pages.
For now, I've removed the linked artists in that Lunar bootleg.

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Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
I'm still not convinced that the duplication on the discographies is a bad thing. Most LE editions include additional material on a 2nd disc anyway (granted, mostly videos of songs that are on the 1st disc). I'd even consider going the other way, and displaying the reprints.
I thought about it after a discussion we had in this thread, as we didn't find a way to indicate that a disc was a reprint as part of another album. Maybe the organization of the LE releases will improve with the automatic "Limited Edition" in the title like Gigablah said. Or if somehow the albums are linked together, but with independent artists. Perhaps it can be added some indication, like "Limited Edition of catalog number" with the link for the correspondent album.

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Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
In the case of FFXIII, Hamauzu's music will be used in the drama contents on the fifth disc, but I doubt all of Suzuki, Yamazaki, Nakano, Hirano, or miscellaneous performers (e.g. Aya, Saito and Sekito) are still there, but all of them will end up being credited for the LE edition.
I had not realized that Hamauzu's music will also be on the CD drama. I think this complicates a bit what I was imagining...

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Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
I'd even consider going the other way, and displaying the reprints.
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Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
I think this is the best solution in terms of consistency (if not so much for legibility or visibility...).
I agree, also appears to be a solution, though I also find that the discographies of the composers will fill with similar albums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedille View Post
If the current 'feat' is supposed to seclude Doujin works from discographies, I wonder if we ought to have another function to seclude official reprises or such from the albums where artists have direct involvements in... just a random idea.
I've also think about it. I must say that I'm not a big fan of many "feat." in official releases that I saw in database, especially from concerts and arranged albums, since it is difficult to determine if the composer really had no involvement. A lot can happen behind the scenes that are often not credited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datschge View Post
I guess this whole issue could be solved cleanly once there are per track credits. Such could be then extended with info if the track is the first of it kind (ideally tracked for composition and arrangement separately, so different arrangements don't raise credits for composition), and then those could be accumulated for credits statistics.
It would be very interesting indeed. I think the upcoming metadata will determine the statistics of the composers more accurately.

Last edited by Revoc; Jan 21, 2010 at 03:59 PM.
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